Of war, God, and Christianity
Earlier this afternoon, I had an ICQ conversation with my friend Betsy. I know many friends wondering, debating (both privately and publically) about the war, and trying to tie it back to the Word and then to how that should guide our response to it. I hope to start dialog in this blog about this issue. The text has been cleaned up, editted for clarity, and grammar touched up. Feel free to invite people to read and give their input. I definitely want to clarify some of my own points and add other ideas.
Below is the text of our conversation.
Betsy Wang: As I watched about the news these days, I felt sadness and also shame to be a citizen of the U.S. @_@.
Dan Tshin: So, what's your sense of what's going on?
I'm going to start a conversation on my blog about it (referencing my entry at Blog(s) of war)...
What do you feel, as a Christian? What is your vision and hope for the near and medium future?
BW: I'm scared to see history of crusade repeating itself - hatred due to religious beliefs. That's scary and it can surely move us backwards to what we're done in carrying out the great commission. As a Christian ([who] potentially will be working oversea in the future), I'm concerned to be an Amercian Christian; because of this current situation, an invisible barrier of understanding and acceptance has instantly been built up. I'm not sure how to explain and respond to people who link Christianity to [being] American.
Because the world [has gotten] so much smaller due to gobalization, we have to understand how each decision and action will impact the world as a whole...it gets more complicated these days, but in many ways, now is the time that we as Followers of Christ have to step out and stand firm to see the Kingdom of God on earth.
DT: [That's] definitely a downside of having church and state so co-mingled. Sadly, Republicans are thought of as Christians and vice versa. "Separation of church and state" is hard to find, for all intensive purposes, in the USA - it is more implied. [But] in a sense, they (church and politics) are in bed together.
In Canada, the church and state have been very close, but [those] were the large organized churches (RCC, United, Anglican).. but otherwise in the sphere of citizenship, it's quite separate.
It is really so "easy" to follow spiritual principles laid in the Biblee - the greatest commandments. And pursuing those [commandments] with integrity would've prevented the steps that [have] led us ([which is] North America, the West) [in]to such a quagmire - politically, morally, etc. And integrity is the way out, too.
BW: Yesterday I was talking to my friend about the problem of having holding a U.S. passport in the future.
DT: And (perhaps perversely), I'm really glad the Canadian government has been such a vocal opposer to the war. Domestically, with respect to trade and economics - which is not a small issue - we'll be hurt, however.
BW: I'm thinking about getting my ROC (Taiwan) passport back (just in case)...but it's kinda stupid and useless anyway.
DT: [There are] lots of doors being opened and closed with this conflict. And I'm looking at this from a missions/aid point of view, [it is] something that we Canadians should capitalize on. My dad looked at the World Vision web site and it had so many openings for people to go to Iraq.
BW: I was thinking along that line too, looking at the current state of SARS and the war, I'm thinking about shifting focus from east asia to central asian and middle east as doors open and close. In my Perspectives class, we're learning about carrying only the pure Gospel, which transcends through all cultures, not a culturally packaged gospel. Ethnocentric type of thinking is very problematic.
DT: Yeah. My dad had some opportunities to go out the South East Asia, but will [now] postpone [exploring those opportunities].
BW: Religion is a very powerful thing. We need to exercise it in a proper ways. Not many people have the full grasp on the truth about the Kingdom of God - it's a mystery in many ways. History says lots about it. In the Kindgom of God, we should see life being transform and society also being transformed by the Truth. Micah 6:8 keeps on ringing my bell these days.
DT: AMEN!!!! [I] had a good conversation about the "Kingdom of God" in our Sunday School.. lots of people don't understand that concept [of Kingdom of God], which leads to other falacies about religion, spirituality and their role in life.
BW: Christianity is not about transforming people's religious belief or cultural values or technologies...it's a matter of bringing the Kingdom of God on earth so that God will be praised.
The Kindom of God is hard to understand. It's a life long process learning this mystery spoken so heavily in the gospel. [The Parable of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast, Parable of the Weeds, Parable of the Hidden Treasure and the Pearl, Parable of the Net, Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard, Parable of the Wedding Banquet..etc Parables after parables, we ALL miss it (the Kingdom of Heaven) at one point or the other. Matthew 13:14-17]
Dan: But through "God will be praised", religious beliefs, cultural values, and technologies WILL be transformed. I don't see a disconnect between spiritual and secular. I regard them as a holistic whole. "Worship" should involve all - this point leads to a discussion of vocation and calling.
BW: AMEN!! I totally agree 300 million % rooting for that!!
Sorry to cut this short, but I would totally love to talk to you more about this later if you're around.
Comments
Hey guys;
I'm pleased to hear that this is an anti-war discussion. I am very much against the war as well. I'm a christian and stand (recently more strongly) against war.
I heard an amazing sermon that clarified things for me. Listen to it at this site:
"war: what is it good for?"
http://www.themeetinghouse.ca/ss_archives.php
The sermon was preached from the standpoint of an anti-war perspective. It was based on the fact that we are to look to Jesus' life for our example. It is clear that Jesus said things like
1. "Love your enemy"
2. "turn the other cheek"
3. "forgive 70 x 7 times" (meaning infinitely)
4. "if you have a disagreement with your brother and you are going to go to worship, drop what you are doing and make things right with him".
Then Jesus went died for his enemies, not a nice death. His enemies killed him because they did not agree on matters of faith. It seems that Jesus was quite the example of loving his enemies and not killing them!
As a follower of Jesus, I'm quite ready to aim for his example.
Posted by: Mark Duiker | April 3, 2003 10:05 PM
I have approxiamately 10 minutes to write this, so if I stop suddenly please understand.
This is a very interesting time for me. I am a born again Christian, an American citizen, Gulf War veteran, Mission worker to Muslims, a man born into and brought up in the United States Army. I am one who is not terribly interested in the "expert" analysis offered by the various media channels.
Some thoughts. I am both fascinated and disgusted by media coverage of the war and it's surrounding issues. I feel the same way about many people I've encountered who have a strongly vocal position on this issue. Every one is out to prove their point of view it seems and no one is willing to be reasonable and listen to try to get a balanced perspective in an effort to find truth, or perhaps gain an insight into this great mystery.
When I read the editorial pages in my local newspaper, I see often people inplementing facts to back their positions and then saying that based on these facts, no rational person would think otherwise, or that no ethical and honest person would think something beyond the presented opinion. The truth is something composed of facts, not individual facts themselves patched together like a ransom note.
I type slowly, I have to go.
Posted by: Sam Allen | April 7, 2003 6:31 PM
Hey Sam! Thanks for the comment... I feel the same way about your first point: both fascinated and disgusted by the coverage.
Hopefully on Wednesday, two friends and myself will be joining CBC Newsworld's Counterspin audience to listen to the debate and conversation titled: "WAR IN IRAQ - THE FRONT-LINE STATES"
The debates and conversations bring more nuanced and deeper understanding to the show than say the main media outlets. It can get acrimonious, but the show, as well as coverage here (especially in editorials), has been quite balanced. I believe it to be a general trait Canadians have (and because of that, we're accused of "waffling"). I get quite uncomfortable and annoyed with hard opinions on either side, as pundits arrogantly sound as if they have a monopoly on truth. I consistently discover critical tension when I read about the lives of "spiritual greats" and on Christian activism that have resisted politicization of the church. Likewise, I believe there exist solutions to this war and the subsequent rebuilding of Iraq that reject the matter-of-fact vitriol and positioning of the extremes (or rather the two mainstreams.) Moreover, I believe it must reject such self-righteousness. I understand Jesus' work and ministry in building God's "Kingdom on Earth" to be a slow, counter-cultural, and subversive - through love (love-subversive?) - journey. I hope all Christians can unite to truly love God and others with this high on our hearts and minds, despite our political leanings.
Anyways, I hope to hear more of your comments, when you have more time!
Posted by: Dan | April 7, 2003 7:43 PM